[Billbo1970]

Just found this site & thread after being stunned when I couldn't find DILEMNA in any dictionary... I thought MS Word was crazy when it gave me the red underscores, lol.

Very interesting thread, but it still looks like nobody has been able to figure out how so many of us were taught to spell it with the N ?

Some demographics, just to add to the KB on this

I'm 38, living in NY, USA. Born here as well. I too tend to put the double-space after the period, and have also noticed the - disappearing from words with prefixes... such as dis-appearing .

Do they not teach cursive or 'script' in schools anymore? I remember being berated by the teacher for hating it, and being asked if I wanted my handwriting to look like a childs for the rest of my life! lol

Have you all seen this post? http://dsquared22.co...ilemma-dilemna/

Bill

This post has been edited by Billbo1970: 24 October 2008 - 05:02 PM

[Vandalin]

The English language, no matter if it's Queens English or American English or even Canadian English, is an evolving language. There will always be changes from spelling to punctuation to grammar. It is possible that at one point in time, that is how it was spelled or how someone thought it should be spelled, but it never caught on. How many words change with use, whether it's their spelling or their meaning?

I heard an interesting factoid, although no one could prove it as fact. How many people, when writing a list of items, use a comma before the final item? For example, "My shopping list includes fruit, vegetables, meat, and milk." or do you write it, "My shopping list includes fruit, vegetables, meat and milk." You will see more often these days the list without the comma. Why? Because one of the big wig newspapers in the US discovered how much money they would save be deleting that one comma because of how much space the end up taking. Fact or fiction, not sure. Good example of the ever changing English Language, certainly.

[Billbo1970]

Vandalin, on Oct 24 2008, 01:54 PM, said:

How many people, when writing a list of items, use a comma before the final item? For example, "My shopping list includes fruit, vegetables, meat, and milk." or do you write it, "My shopping list includes fruit, vegetables, meat and milk." You will see more often these days the list without the comma.

Wow, I personally think not using the comma is terrible. In my own mind the comma differentiates between the items.

Ham, and cheese. versus ham and cheese. To me, the first one is 2 seperate items. The second would be appropriate if talking about your sandwich

Bill

This post has been edited by Billbo1970: 24 October 2008 - 09:22 PM

[MarkEI]

I found this interesting thread because my email spell-checker told me "dilemna" was wrong. After reading the thread and continuing my spell-check another issue was brought to my attention "mis-direction" was also marked as wrong - someone mentioned the evaporating dash in their post. Reading back through this post, perhaps spell-check is also improper.

Someone earlier in the thread mentioned region as a possibility for this phenomenon. I grew up near Cobleskill, NY. There was another mention of NY, are we all New Yorkers with this trait?

I also remember learning in typing class('70s) to put a double space after a sentence, although only this thread brought it to remembrance. I haven't used that in years.

I just think it's humorous that this is a dilemna in and of itself.

I always got an A in English(also called Language Arts in my time) and Spelling, and still remember being upset about getting one single word wrong on a third grade spelling test.

[marcox]

I'm an American (b. 1963) who was taught to spell the word "dilemna" at the English-language schools in Mexico City and Puerto Rico where I grew up. The schools in Mexico used a mix of American and British textbooks, so when I noticed the spelling variance later in life I assumed that it was a trans-Atlantic difference.

[delboy]

Reading the previous replies, I too am astonished that so many of us have a similar impression of the word dilemna (dilemma). I was at primary school in the late forties in London and subsequently attended Grammer School in the early fifties. I had been taught to use DILEMNA. I had only come across this discrepency within the last few days when I noticed a friend reading a book and part of the title had the word DILEMMA within it. I raised the issue of the spelling and this friend also agreed that it just did not look right with double M.

I am convinced that at some time since the fifties the spelling became corrupted or changed because so many people remember it as being 'MN'. I was in the printing industry for much of my younger working life and had never knowingly come across the word being spelt with double 'M'. I intend to go back through some old archives of school work and see if this word ever occurs in either form.

Very odd . . . as they say!Dilemna

[mayamaven]

On the off chance that someone is gathering the data collectively proffered here, I'll contribute: I also learned "dilemna" in grade school, in the U.S. mid-south, in Kennett, MO. A gifted student, I was an extremely prodigious reader and have always, then and since, been a stickler for correct spelling (and for the best grammar I can produce--and for researching style of which I find myself uncertain).

I found this thread using Google, after MS Word spanked me with a red, wavy paddle and I began searching for vindication.

I can accept the Greek origin and that "dilemma" is, perhaps, the more correct spelling. I dont like it, though. That spelling looks awkward and childish, to me, and makes me think of the word "tummy" (I like the word "tummy". I just don't like the spelling "dilemma".)

I absolutely love learning about the derivations and bastardizations and growth and death of words in our language, and the question persists, both here and in my mind, of why so many of us did learn--and, in fact, learned by correction rather than by absorption--to misspell this word. The number of us with this experience is so large that I feel there must be some reason that can be proved.

I work at not being a completely stuffed shirt about growth and changes in the language, but work it is, for me. Perhaps I don't write with perfect grammar, spelling, and style, but I do know that I recognize bad examples of those, when I see them, and experience something like revulsion upon encountering many of them, singly or abundantly, in any venue, be it formal or popular. What astonishes me, and concerns me, probably far more than it should, is the rapidity of change we've seen since mass media began sliding into laxity, a phenomenon which I think may be attributable to what I see as an extreme decline in the quality of education, here in the United States. If the majority of students we graduate cannot read (much less spell), the newspapers and television stations are forced to employ a higher percentage of poor writers, proofreaders, editors, and producers who don't know--and/or don't care--about quality and precision in grammar and syntax, with spelling worth no more than a careless shrug on the daily slide toward clocking out.

Sorry--involuntary step onto the soapbox, there.

I think that, until I can find not only proof but also an explanation for the whole issue of spelling of this word, I will continue with "dilemna" rather than "dilemma of the tummy", because, however wrong it may be, I know it will find recognition with many, many fellow lovers of the language who have learned it the same way. It is that population I enjoy as good company, and I know that, even if they recognize it as an error, they will understand the strength of my feelings about it and hail me as one of their own. It is for them I like to write and from them I like to read--and with them I hope to conduct a lifelong dialogue on the birth, life, and sometimes death of English words and points of style. (By the way, I always appreciate being corrected, any time I write anything, by anyone with more knowledge who doesn't mind taking the time to respond. I also pray that my ingrained habit of trying to write well and correctly is never mistaken for hubris. I am, in fact, very humble and aware of my many shortcomings. It is only my lifelong love of meaningful communication--not the pursuit of status, within any demographic--that pushes me to aim for excellence. With teachers among the elders in my family, I have always accepted correction with a great sense of sport and simple joy in knowledge! Thanks!)

[Tallymon]

Poster above me pretty much summed up my exact sentiments. I was also taught "dilemna" in school, am a stickler for accurate spelling, and really hate the fact that I spelled "dilemma" wrong for so many years.

Dilemma feels ugly and blah to me as well.

Schooled in west coast USA, probably taught the word "dilemna" as early as 1995, around 5th grade.

[Trishia]

There are plenty of teachers, & other school workers, ~ including English teachers ~ who do not know how to spell very well.

Here are some examples that I remember:

chrisps, neclace, promt, Edingburgh, fourty

One class was severely reprimanded, by their English teacher, for not knowing how to spell 'chrisps'!

[Trishia]

'Dilemma' feels right to me.

And not usually a comma before 'and'.



Here's a useful site:
www.askoxford.com

This post has been edited by Trishia: 20 September 2009 - 11:17 PM

[T.O.M.]

oneofus, on Jan 15 2004, 04:55 AM, said:

The correct spelling is "dilemma" yet I was taught at school to spell it "dilemna". A quick search on Google (search for "dilemna dilemma spelling") shows that I'm not alone.

Was anyone else taught to spell this word incorrectly?

Not only taught, I won a spelling bee in the 7th grade. The word was dilemna.

[Ohms]

Howdy,
I'm an American raised in the deep south (Mississippi). I was born in 1966 and I could've sworn that I was always taught to spell it 'dilemna'. It wasn't until just today that I discovered I've been wrong all these years. I'm also a stickler for correct spelling, especially since people from Mississippi are portrayed in the media as uneducated and/or ignorant.
BTW, "Mississippi Burning" happened a long time ago and I can guarantee you there is just as much racism in other areas of the U.S. as there is in MS, if not more. Sorry, I had to respond to that since we are often prejudged.

[lottapaws]

I, too, was taught the spelling "dilemna". Being an old fart who was schooled in Texas, it appears the spelling was taught throughout the country in the 1950's and 1960's/

My teachers were exceedingly au courant. Strict discipline in grammar, spelling, and syntax was the norm. There was no acceptance of anything less than proper use of the English language. We diagrammed sentences, not just in English, but even in my Latin classes. Improper verb tenses, dangling participles, and incorrect use of adjectives where adverbs are appropriate, any of these would result in a very poor grade.

Had one of my teachers been guilty of improper English usage, there would shortly have been a new job opening for an English teacher. In comparison, today's average English teacher would score beneath most all, if not all, of the students in my classes

I does make sense to drop the "n" and add the second "m", but old behavior is difficult to change, and I prefer the 'look' of the word spelled with an "n".

[Cheryl S]

I am 52 years old and live in the Northeastern part of the United States. I aced Spelling in school and was definitely taught to spell it as dilemna. It is a mystery as to why so many of us here on this forum were taught to spell it that way. Since the root of the word in Greek and Latin uses "mm" and not "mn", I can only assume that we were taught incorrectly, but WHY??

[RichardInJapan]

That's strange, Paul. Why were you taught to spell it incorrectly?

Over a year ago I was a temp secretary at the local college and typed up some papers for a teacher. She spelled "diagram" as "diagramme" in a paper. I corrected it and sent it back to her. She then is adamant that I'm wrong and she's right because it's the British spelling not American. She obviously thought that since I was American I didn't know how to spell the British way! Anyway, in the end I proved her wrong and she ended up apologising.

Other than that, I haven't had that particular trouble, fortunately. My teachers were really good. BUT the hard part is making sure I spell words correctly. They might be correct, but in the British variation. If I spell them like that here, people think I don't know how to spell!

REPLY TO Aiyana
I think she was trying to cover herself. I'm British and I've NEVER seen it spelled as 'diagramme'. She may have confused it with 'programme' and 'program'.http://www.oneofus.c...fault/smile.gif

This post has been edited by RichardInJapan: 28 March 2010 - 08:31 AM

[Billbo1970]

Wow, still no definitive answer for the discrepancy? Very interesting!

Bill

[jsb]

A friend of mine called me up and asked me how I spelled "dilemma". - I'm not a great speller so I had to look it up in a dictionary. But before I looked it up, I thought "One "m" doesn't feel quite right. Could it be two "m"s? Or maybe "mn"?" Here's my question for those who were taught to spell it wrong: do you remember exactly in what sense you were taught this? Was it in a teacher's hand-out, or an actual textbook? It would be fascinating if we could pin down the actual source of the erroneous spelling. If it wasn't for the distinct memories of having learned it that way, it would be just a normal (for people like me) misspelling - having seen the word frequently, one would remember vaguely that there is something unusual about it, and then one might settle on "mn", on the model of "column" or "damn", as a plausible unusual way to get the sound "m". But if someone followed a process like that, and got in the habit of spelling it "mn", would they remember so clearly that they had actually learned it that way? If we could track down some elementary school spelling book with the "dilemna" spelling, maybe it could become as famous as the "Wicked Bible". (Well, maybe not that famous.)

[David222]

Alibabe666, on Jan 27 2004, 11:00 AM, said:

Slightly off topic here but just to show the quirks of the English language. If incapable means NOT capable and inacitve means NOT active how come Inflammable means exactly the same as flammable???

I find the US spelling of words much more logical than ours, but a bit weird to look at until you get used to it.

This post has been edited by Vandalin: 02 June 2010 - 03:31 PM

[jonathanstrange]

"Dilemma" feels and looks so much more attractive then "dilenmna". Plus you get the red squiggly line under "dilemna" and nobody really likes that do they...?